Counterintuitive Thinking
You may take Notes on this lecture in the usual spot (your daily Agenda Notes), but ALSO;
In the Reply field below this post, tell me what specific example in the lecture provided you with the clearest understanding of what I mean by counterintuitive, and why.
Before we begin writing a semester-worthy Research Position Paper on a counterintuitive topic, you’ll be wanting to know what I mean by counterintuitive.
I haven’t always had an outlet for my particular slant on life. A some point in Catholic grade school I started to wonder if maybe God was made in man’s image instead of the other way around.
Maybe because we can’t comprehend eternity, we call eternity God. And because we can’t comprehend infinite space without bounds, we call the limitless universe God. We can’t accept the lack of justice on earth, so we imagine heaven where the scales are all balanced. If so, God doesn’t resolve the incomprehensibility of anything; deity is just a way to think about things we can’t understand.
What we believe to be the case is probably not. Call this a scientific way of thinking. Every conclusion, as soon as it’s proven, is subject to fresh dispute. That may sound like despair, or it can sound like progress. For those of us who describe our religious views on Facebook as: “Faith in unanswerable questions,” it’s nothing special.
Speaking of Facebook, you’ve probably noticed this interesting social development:
Facebook added more gender categories than the Olympics in 2014
Updated for 2021
Instead of forcing users to identify as merely male or female, Facebook has introduced a third massive category of “custom” gender options including “transgender,” “cisgender,” “gender fluid,” “intersex,” and “neither.” I’ve chosen “gender fluid” just to be playful, but for users uncomfortable with binary gender categories, this flexibility must be truly liberating.
[Just this morning I checked again, and Facebook has updated by removing all suggestions for alternative gender classifications, opting instead to permit users to describe gender as they wish. Male and Female are still options, but the Custom choice allowed me to describe my gender as “Who’s Asking?”]
I don’t know whether this will solve or further complicate a problem social media has always had of not knowing what to call us when they recommend us to others. You’ve probably noticed oddities such as, “David Hodges would like you to view their page.” Now that I’m allowed to select the pronoun I wish to be addressed by, Facebook can comfortably call me “he” and my pages “his pages.”
I heard this news while thinking about Olympic athletes from now and ages ago whose genders created questions or disputes. Chinese gymnasts of earlier games are thought to have been as young as 12 or 13 (girls, not women; not exactly a gender problem, but a category problem). Also loudly whispered was the question: were the 14- and 15-year-old competitors fed hormones to delay their advancing development from girlhood to womanhood?
On the other extreme, were Russian athletes in strength competitions actually genetic gentlemen competing against the ladies, or again steroid-fed women whose physiques were artificially masculine?
Now finally, there are some women competing in bobsled contests, but still the gender divide is fairly complete: Men’s Downhill, and Women’s Downhill. How long can these binary categories last when in the rest of our lives we’re invited to be more selective in which gender we “present” to the world?
My Shopping List is an Argument
I will certainly tell you many times this semester that every written document is an argument. I challenge students with this premise all the time because it sounds so implausible, but I’d like to present a shopping list as an example of what I believe to be a written argument, written for a particular audience, which becomes a battleground for dispute in the hands of any other reader.
As long as I (the intended audience) have this list with me, my reader is unlikely to argue with its premises. But even so, I may decide to substitute Haagen-Dasz for Breyers if the price is right. However, if my wife takes the list to the store on my behalf, she may present compelling counterarguments to my “editorial position” on the following grounds or others:
- Who needs premium ice cream?
- Will he even notice the difference between conventional kale and organic kale (Is there actually a difference?)?
- We already have plenty of drawstring bags.
- We don’t have room for 24 more seltzer bottles.
- Since when do we buy beef specifically for the dogs?
- Even if the per-pill price is significantly cheaper, I can’t believe we’ll use 1000 ibuprofen before their effectiveness expires.
Diarists Lie
On this topic, please remind me to argue that a diary is written for a very specific audience and therefore is as manipulative and artificial as any other piece of writing. (If you need a preview of this demonstration I will direct you to Francine Prose’s wonderful examination of Anne Frank’s Diary of a Young Girl, which, she argues convincingly, was extensively edited by Frank for the sake of future readers.)
Mitt’s Audience
On this topic also, I could share with you the video captured at Mitt Romney’s campaign fundraiser during the runup to the 2012 presidential election. If you can imagine him making the same speech to any other audience, then you haven’t started thinking seriously about how exactly we craft what we write to suit our intended readers.
Duchamp’s Readymades
Marcel Duchamp is a favorite of mine, and I’d recently been to the Philadelphia Museum of Art, so when I found myself handling paring knives and graters in the kitchen, I asked myself the simple question: is this item art?
It’s certainly beautifully designed and crafted, but my instinct tells me its functionality prevents it from being art. My working definition is that art is something created for no other purpose than to be observed or experienced. Still, I’m disputatious, so I didn’t let that first impression stop me. It certainly didn’t stop Duchamp from calling this art:
He didn’t create it, design it, weld it, or change it in any way except to sign it and remove it from the place where it would have had a function. Placing it into an art gallery, for Duchamp, and for the rest of the art world, effectively transformed a wire bottle rack into a piece of art. So maybe my definition still works. Maybe not. Do you have a better definition for art you could pursue as a counterintuitive topic?
Tim’s Vermeer
While I was puzzling over ready-mades and washing dishes, I was reminded that I hadn’t yet seen a documentary that had been on my list.
The Dutch painter Vermeer is well-known for his remarkably realistic interiors in which people and furniture are carefully arranged. He handled perspective perfectly, long before other painters had a clue how to realistically portray actual items in space.
Inventor Tim Jenison thought he might have an idea how Vermeer accomplished his remarkable achievement. He knew, as many did, that pinhole cameras had been used by artists for years to project images onto walls for reproduction.
LINK: “How to Turn a Room into a Camera Obscura”
Jenison is an inventor, not a painter, so he wondered more about how such a “machine” might help him accomplish a job than about whether the result would be art. This early question eventually led him to discover that he too could accomplish remarkably “artistic” results through mostly mechanical means. First, he built a room like the room in Vermeer’s “Music Lesson.”
Then, he dressed models in appropriate clothing.
Then, using mirrors to reflect images of the room just in front of his canvas, he mixed paints to match what he saw before him, and, without any artistic training, he produced facsimiles of the images he placed before the mirrors.
After years of practice, trial, error, and corrections, he has upset a lot of people by painting this:
![penn-teller-jenison[1]](https://rowancounterintuitive.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/penn-teller-jenison1.jpg?w=640)
One More About Art
Alexa Meade has a different way of representing three-dimensional objects as two-dimensional objects. She paints directly on the objects, turning them from objects into paintings.
This isn’t a painting of breakfast. It’s breakfast, painted.
And this is not a painting of a man on a bus. It’s a man on a bus, painted.
Here’s how it looks when she’s working on it.
Here’s how it looks when other people look at it:
Follow this link to Alexa Meade’s Street Art installation (My Modern Met)
Awesome video of the 2D portrait process
Let’s apply a different way of thinking to some real-life social and ethical issues.
Bariatric Surgery
Do you have a strong feeling about bariatric surgery? I don’t. I’m sympathetic toward people who can’t seem to keep their weight under control despite their best efforts. I’ve conducted enough skirmishes with my own body to appreciate that our appetites are not merely desires we can control with “will power.”
I also don’t think “will power” is a commodity we all have access to in the same supply. So a person whose body conspires to withhold every calorie, who also lacks the psychological ability to deny himself, or the physiological signal that tells the rest of us we’re “full,” is just cursed and needs some help.
So, why does this story from the Wall Street Journal disturb me so much?
“As the World’s Kids Get Fatter, Doctors Turn to the Knife.”
Daifailluh al-Bugami, 3 years old, is awaiting bariatric surgery. Daifailluh is among a rapidly growing number of kids in Saudi Arabia undergoing radical surgery to control their weight. In the last seven years, Daifailluh’s doctor has performed bariatric surgery on nearly 100 children under the age of 14 from countries in the Gulf region.
Euthanasia for Kids
This one takes questions of age-appropriateness to an extreme. From the New York Times: “Belgian lawmakers gave final approval on Thursday to a measure that would allow euthanasia for incurably ill children enduring insufferable pain. King Philippe is expected to sign the measure into law and make Belgium the first country to lift all age restrictions on legal, medically-induced deaths.
“Under the measure, approved 86 to 44 by the lower house, euthanasia would be permissible for terminally ill children who are close to death, experiencing ‘constant and unbearable suffering’ and can show a ‘capacity of discernment,’ meaning they can demonstrate they understand the consequences of such a choice.”
As you can imagine, despite the majority in the legislature, the prospect of letting kids decide to die, and helping them do so, has some very vehement opponents.
Why do I consider this question counterintuitive?
There are more than two points of view here.
- Some might object to assisted suicide period.
- Others might insist we all have the right to end our lives if they’ve grown intolerable.
- Those in the middle might think it’s acceptable for the very elderly to end their lives slightly prematurely but be appalled at the prospect of ending a child’s life.
- All three points of view are counterintuitive.
What’s counterintuitive about them?
- We can’t actively promote killing ourselves without feeling the natural resistance of our bodies to preserve themselves.
- We can’t logically insist that our loved ones continue to suffer after they’ve concluded that their lives are worth more to us than to themselves and very little to either.
- And if we want to claim that the elderly have a right that is somehow unavailable to youth, let me suggest this:
- Distance from birth is one way to calculate age; distance from death is another.
- By the second calculation, the child with the terminal illness is older than you and me.
If you want to change the world . . .
change the metaphors we use to describe it.
Here is a sleeping dog:
But add just two little black dots, and here is what a predator sees when considering whether to attack the “sleeping dog.”
Now that you’ve seen the extra set of “eyes” above the dog’s eyes, you can never un-see them. Practice finding that in your arguments. Give your readers a perspective they can never un-read.
In the Reply field below, tell me what specific example in the lecture provided you with the clearest understanding of what I mean by counterintuitive, and why.
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Counterintuitive Fall 2022 
Euthanasia for kids provided me with the clearest understanding of what you mean by counterintuitive because they can’t promote kids killing themselves.
Also because it’s awful what’s happing to those kids out there.
Shopping list
– you are rationalizing why you want something
– people will try and say some things are necessities and some are not.
– can argue with yourself and helps weigh options
– isn’t always set in stone (sales, other factors)
The specific example of talking about the grocery list being an argument has provided the most clarity of what counterintuitive means. Moreover, going to the grocery store intending to buy Breyers vanilla ice cream may change being another brand may be on sale. This then will cause an internal conflict as to which one to buy.
The religion part is a good example of what counterintuitive means. Because when you get older I feel like you start to think for yourself and question everything.
Counterintuitivity is a clear argument made that is completely against the main direction or intended purpose of a piece of content. It may be counterintuitive to buy a new car to drive to work if that new car is much slower than my old one. Even if the car is better than my old car in some ways, it is still worse in that way. I spent all that money on something that was intended to be better, but it ended up being worse. Therefore, my purchase was counterintuitive to my goal; to drive a better car.
If you’ve ever written a diary before you know you’re writing for yourself, and keeping secrets in there you want for future reference and want for no one else to read. But while you write your feelings and experiences in your diary, are you telling yourself the truth? Why would one lie to their own self? Is it to hide from the truth, that they wish to not accept? This was one of the examples that helped me understand counterintuitive. But then the example about how we calculate age really got to me. Is it how long since we were born, or it could be how long until we die. This really made me change my perspective on what age is. Because someone who will die today will be just as old as a 97 year old.
Counterintuitive Thinking Notes:
Counterintuitive thinking is being surprised and seeing different perspectives on different topics which can lead to change in opinion.
Professor Hodges explained how he was getting ready for his confirmation and questioned his belief in God. The only reasons he came up with dealt with his zip code and family making him think that people invented God. I wonder about a lot of different things on a daily basis and why we believe the things we believe in. For example, the definition of love is explained differently by each individual. I feel as if love is something that can never be defined and never will be. Love is such a strong word used to describe people in our lives but what does love really mean is always in question?
Hodges says,” There is something beyond space that we do not know what it is since space is so limitless.” The word limitless that Professor Hodges uses relates to the idea of having infinite ideas of what love as well. There are some things we can not explain.
“Faith in unanswerable questions.” Maybe there are no answers to anything in life but rather we think there are answers to be at peace with our thoughts.
In the Olympics should gender still be included such as Men’s downslope and Women’s downslope or should we have a separate section for trans people. I think we should have separate categories based on experience and skill level not gender. I think women and men can be equal and those who are a part of the LGBTQ community could speak out on what seems right to them.
A shopping list can be an argument such as some people argue about ground beef being good for dogs. Finding alternatives for different products such as not getting Breyers ice cream since Haagen Dazs ice cream was on sale. We all have different ideas of what’s right and wrong when it comes to lifestyle and I think it can be a very controversial topic for many. We do not all have to agree with one another but seeing differences in the train of thought is what helps us grow and stay open-minded.
If you’ve ever written a diary before you know you’re writing for yourself, and keeping secrets in there you want for future reference and want for no one else to read. But while you write your feelings and experiences in your diary, are you telling yourself the truth? Why would one lie to their own self? Is it to hide from the truth, that they wish to not accept? This was one of the examples that helped me understand counterintuitive. But then the example about how we calculate age really got to me. Is it how long since we were born, or it could be how long until we die. This really made me change my perspective on what age is. Because someone who will die today will be just as old as a 97 year old.
The art by Alexa Mede gave me the best understanding. Moreover, Alexa Mede paints 3D objects but makes them look like a typical 2D painting. This exhibits counterintuitive thinking being that it goes against the viewers’ intuition when it comes to being an actual 3D object.
I think that the paintings showed me best what counterintuitive means. When the artist would paint the people who looked like characters, it would make you second guess what you were looking at. It would make you question and think twice at what is in front of you.
Out of the list of examples of counterintuitive thinking, the ones that helped me to understand the most would be the shopping list and the art. Out of all I think the shopping list is the easiest example here just to understand. With the art, I think it just gave me a different understanding, especially seeing the video of Tim Jenison with the room, and just seeing how he painted with the mirror of the face. I think both overall just gave me a different perspective to what counterintuitive actually means.
The kitchen appliances were great examples of counterintuitive, because it changed your perspective on art and useable items. It makes sense that they could still be art even though they are functional. Or if they aren’t functional if that makes them art.
The shopping list is a perfect example of counterintuitive because when you send it to someone you are expecting the same but you ask for ben and Jerry and because Haagen Daz is on sale that is what we will choose.
The clearest example to me that showed “counterintuitive”, was the puppy example. At first glance you don’t notice the dog has a specific survival trait. When sleeping the dog has prominent orange dogs on its eyelids that make it look like a menacing dog is looking at you. When I saw this, I couldn’t unsee it. Counterintuitive should change the way people see things forever. Changing someone’s point of view of something, and you being able to change it is very powerful.
– The diary gave me the best comprehension of what counterintuitive means because I used to write in a journal myself and the lecture made me realize that depending on what type of writer I am affected by what I write inside of my journal.
The idea of determining age, how far you are from your birth date, versus how far you are from your death. It helped me understand counterintuitive thinking and writing, like the eyes above the dog eyes.
I feel that I best understood counterintuitivity after discussing how age could be looked at as how far you are from your death rather than how long it has been since the day you were born. Although I did get a good sense of counterintuitivy from other examples the demonstration about think of age in a completely different and unexpected way really showed what true counterintuitivity is. This example ran completely contrary to any intuition I may have had about ways to perceive age. Who thinks like that?
My favorite idea provided in todays lesson was the bottle rack. It is something that has a very clear purpose, to dry bottles after they had just been cleaned. When someone sees it for sale in a shop, they don’t view it for its original straightforward purpose. They see it as a sculpture, a piece of metal someone crafted into an aesthetically pleasing form. He discovered the “hidden purpose” that goes against what you would normally expect, and placed it in a museum. I think it is very funny to picture all the art enthusiasts trying to deduce what the “artist” was thinking about when he crafted his “art piece,” when it really had just been something to dry bottles with.
The shopping list provided me with the best counterintuitive thinking. The shopping list was the most helpful in counterintuitively because the shopping list was made by you meaning you agree completely with what is written on the paper because you are the one who wrote it. However, you can change your mind when you get to the store with means that the shopping list is wrong. This idea can be applied to our writing too because even though we are the ones writing our papers, doesn’t mean what we are writing is gonna be perfect ever because our views are constantly changing and evolving.
The artist who painted real objects or people to make them look like paintings explained counterintuitivity to me best. Other examples helped, but that one proved to me how counterintuitivity is doing the unexpected, what seems to make no sense but in the end actually proves to be rational.
Counterintuitivity
-Counterintuitive thinking is being surprised and seeing different perspectives on different topics which can lead to change in opinion.
-Professor Hodges explains how he questioned himself about God. He explained different points of views on religion and how it could have changed if he went to a different school. He also explained how many people believe that many years before their life and after they die if it is something that is there forever is God.
-In the Olympics should gender just fully be erased. No men and women category, but categorized by weight, height and maybe age. I believe it should stay categorized by men and women. One, I think that everything other than men and women is wrong and should not be allowed. If it was categorized by weight, height and maybe age it is not accurate because there are things that men are better than women at and women are better than men. Some things are not fair due to the fact that in different categories one gender can physically dominate the other gender. If you were born male you are a man if you were born a female then you are a woman.
-With the art pictures some people may believe that it is art and some will believe that it is not art due to the fact of their life and what they believe in when in general a painting is art no matter what it looks like it’s art. Personally, I have seen some paintings that I consider not art just because I think it looks ugly.
You just need to see what things actually mean and not look at more of it.
Thinking counterintuitive helps you actually think about different things in different ways. It lets you see different perspectives of things that you wouldn’t even think about seeing. It just opens your mind up completely.
“Anything that could be written down is an argument.” We are shown how even a shopping list could be turned into an argument by seeing if we actually need the things on the list or if it is just put there because you forgot that you already have it or if you need to add more things
We all try to shape our own reality by leaving key details out (lying) so that we could believe ourselves that certain things were a certain way.
The example that gave me the best meanings of counterintuitivity was the shopping list.
-The paintings that are not paintings, but look like its been painted is the easiest example to understand. The simple deception that these pictures produce makes it easy to see the counterintuitive aspect. Your intuition says “It’s a painting,” but it’s not. It is just a person painted to look like a painting.
-The Olympics topic is a very good example because the way everyone likes to think about it is how to keep certain genders separate but determine where gender fluid people can fit. Instead of thinking this way, getting rid of the gender boundaries completely and setting new boundaries around one’s physique is a new way of approaching it. It is a good example because of the clear difference in the train of thought.
Out of all the examples I found the Diary example most interesting. You are essentially shaping experiences today so that it can communicate something to your future self. It is an argument because the person that wrote the journal will not be the same person reading it weeks, months, or years later.
The example of the euthanasia for kids really drove home the idea of counterintuitivity for me. At first glance, it seems horrific for a child that has only been alive for 6 years to make the decision for a medically induced death. However, when you flip your thinking of age, you understand that both a 6 year old and a 90 year old can both be the same time from death, and therefore the decision could be held with the same weight, even if our ethics disagrees with it at first.
The painting example gave me the best idea of what counterintuity means. The artist paints people to look like a 2D painting, when in fact they are actually a 3D object. This makes you stop and question what you are looking at. It makes no sense when you first look at it, but ultimately ends up being completely rational.
The example of counterintuitive arguments that gave me the most insight into what counterintuitive is would be the example of the shopping list. In your shopping list, you may have written an exact brand of an item you want to purchase. If the store doesn’t have the brand you were looking for, do you get another brand or do you forget the item altogether? If you chose to purchase another brand you are contradicting what you had originally written. If you give your shopping list to another person they may not get some of the items on your list because they know you already have them or don’t need that item. This is them counterintuitively arguing against what you wrote.
Euthanasia for the kids gave me the clearest understanding of counterintuitive thinking because they can’t make kids go through that process, they always have a choice. This option made them second guess.
Counterintuitive thinking are actions intended to produce a desired outcome may generate opposite results. The one that best describes that out of all the examples would be the painting of a breakfast, but its actually a breakfast painted to look like a painting of a breakfast, or a man on a bus painted to look like a painting of a man on a bus. These examples describe that the best for me due to the fact that our minds look at the pictures of what they are, but not what they actually are no matter how absurd the idea is.
Euthanasia for kids proved to me to be the clearest understanding of what you mean by counterintuitive because they can’t promote kids killing themselves. a 6 year old and a 90 year old shouldn’t be able to do the same thing and take their lives.
The example that helped me better understand counterintuitive thinking was the example of religion and why we believe what we believe. Professor explains his reasons for his dropout of religion based off his realization that the religious identity is only present and competitive based on where you are from and the upbringing you endured. This type of “questioning” is a perfect example of how to thinly counterintuitively.
The example that helped me understand counterintuitive thinking the best, was the first example with religion. Hearing his thought process as he grew up was extremely relatable since I went through the same thing. I was raised Calvinist, and I also started to question things just like he did. Turning the idea that we are created in God’s image into god being created in our own is a great example of what counterintuitive thinking means.
If you thought about your age in terms of how long you have left rather than how long you’ve been alive, it would radically change your point of view. Hearing this though helped me understand what counterintuitive thinking means.
I thought the Olympics/Facebook example was the best. Arguing about the idea of gender and gender categories along with fairness, then bringing in a counterintuitive idea of eliminating it as a whole seems very clear.
The example of counterintuitive thinking that described it the best was the example of Euthanasia in kids. If you compare a 6 year old and a 90 year old man and how old they are you can clearly tell they are years apart. However, if you give them both a death day that is 6 months away, you would now consider them 6 months old.
The Shopping list gave very clear insight on what Counterintuitive means showing you can rationalize why you want something and then argue against or anyone could for that matter swapping that object in the list with something identical.
The best example given today in class was most certainly the dog. At first, of course, the dog is cute and cuddly, but once another perspective was given and shown, that dog was no longer cute and cuddly. Witnessing a different POV from your own, can easily change your perspective of what you previously thought was true
The part of the lecture that gave me a great understanding of counterintuitive thinking was an example of the way of calculating age. Seeing that we could calculate it based on our age from date of birth till now compared to how much longer we have to live made me understand and see a different perspective of seeing how we can really talk about our actual age.
The example that helped me understand counterintuitive thinking the best was the example about euthanizing terminally ill people. If we were to measure our lifespans from when it was going to end, both a six year old with 6 months left to live and a 90 year old with 6 months left to live are technically the same age as they have the same time left to live, despite the 90 year old having been on this earth for much longer than the 6 year old. This raises another question to be asked when deciding whether or not euthanizing terminally ill people is ethical or not, further explaining what counterintuitive thinking is
I found the art example with Verner and the shopping list to be the best examples, and I believe both are worth mentioning instead of just picking one because they both emphasized different parts of the meaning for me. The shopping list being described as an argument showcases the logical end and the way that counterintuitivity represents a different, obtuse manner of thinking about things. The example with Verner’s painting is more about things being surprising and contradicting our expectations.
The example the helped me understand counterintuitive thinking the most was the religious example. I have thought about how there’s many religions out there and there’s a lot of religious people who strongly believe in their own God, but which God is the right God ? how do I know that we’re not all wrong ?
I found the journal example the most interesting during our class discussion. It is was a thought that never occured to me that you are writing a journal essentially to your future self so the writer and reader are a different person. I also thought it was interesting to look at age in the reverse manner. Seeing a 90 year old with 6 months to live and a 6 year old with six months to live at the same age is a profound thought.
The example that provided me with the best understanding of counterintuitive was the diary. I have written to myself in a diary before and have gone back to read what I wrote, just to find out that what I wrote was not the same encounter I remember. This creates the confusion/argument of two different views on the same encounter.
I found that the shopping list example helped me a lot because it put it into perspective that you may have an ideal hypothesis, but it can be challenged by another as was the case with the 1,000 ibuprofen . You want the 1,000 ibuprofen , but it is not necessary.
1. Some things that can’t be explained are attached to God in some way
2. Gender Classification in the Olympics is still needed to make things more fair between the men and the women that participate.
3. Everything written in a shopping list can be seen as an argument/claim. If a person were to get some Bryers ice cream then they would go and get it. If for some reason it wasn’t there, that person can make an anti hypothesis
4. People that write in diaries tend to lie because they tend to leave information out. They only use the information that they feel is important, which is why so much is left out
5. Some of the art is important to some, but it’s an eye sore for others. Marcel Duchamp basically did this for a coat rack and a urinal. He basically took those things and called them art, but other people don’t understand it all too well.
6. There is a woman that paints living people. It is so people can see the art at different angles. It doesn’t make much sense but it makes enough sense for a person to do it and claim it as art.
7. I had the clearest understanding about being counterintuitive is the diary example because it’s very similar to telling someone a story but instead of you telling someone about every little detail, you talk about things that you fell is important, which is technically lying. You’re leaving information about deliberately, which is lying in a sense.