6 Responses to Rebuttal Rewrite – Fatboy

1. davidbdale says:

   November 25, 2022 at 11:33 AM

   24 posts are in the queue ahead of you for Feedback, Fatboy.

   My practice is to work first on those for which the authors have requested specific advice or with whom I’m having an ongoing feedback conversation.

   I’ve added an asterisk before the name of your post to indicate that I’ve taken it out of Feedback Please waiting for your Reply.

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   • fatboy489zt says:

     November 25, 2022 at 2:35 PM

     I would like to know what I could change to make my paragraphs stronger and what I can do to better grab ahold of my reader’s attention. I already see that I have to take out the “you’s” in my writing, so that’s going to get changed when I get the feedback.

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2. davidbdale says:

   December 3, 2022 at 7:03 PM

   Sleeping is something that we as humans love to do. Many people even spend most of their lives just staying in bed and sleeping since it is what they believe is for the best. These views towards sleep are common among people, but it is actually the opposite that is true.
   —I wouldn’t call that view common.
   —And it’s not clear what its “opposite” would be exactly.
   —Is “no sleep” the healthy alternative?

   People mistake a [good night’s] rest with getting too much sleep for the night.
   —This does not say what you mean.
   —It says “when people get a good night’s rest, they mistakenly believe it’s too much sleep.

   It is true that getting a [good night’s] rest leaves you with energy and mentally prepared for the next day, but when crossing that line between enough sleep and too much, it turns from “I’m ready to begin my day!” to “I don’t want to get out of bed today.” In the article, “Oversleeping”, by Austin Meadows (Sleep Foundation), he states,
   —Fails for Grammar Rule 7

   “In addition to sleeping more than nine hours a night, other symptoms of oversleeping include: Excessive napping during the day, Excessive daytime sleepiness, Headache”
   —I’m missing something here.
   —Is “sleeping more than nine hour a night” supposed to be a CONSEQUENCE of oversleeping, or just an example of sleeping too much?
   —Again, is “excessive napping” a symptom, a consequence, or an example?
   —Headache is different. It’s probably a consequence. But that’s what makes the series confusing.

   Headaches throughout the day doesn’t sound like somebody who is mentally prepared to finish what they had planned for the day ahead of them. Meadows speaks up about headaches due to oversleeping from a research that would include patients wearing watch-type electronic diaries as a form of way for scientists to detect any headaches from sleeping too little and too much.
   —You’re losing me here. Did Meadows conduct the research or is he merely commenting on it? Was it done by Kikuchi et al?

   After also looking into this research done by Hiroe Kikuchi, Kazuhiro Yoshiuchi, Yoshiharu Yamamoto, Gen Komaki, and Akira Akabayashi, we see that the results that they have come up with is that, “Objectively measured total sleep time was significantly positively associated with momentary headache intensity on the following day.” Contradicting the idea that getting that extra amount of sleep in will do better for you, I doubt anybody would want to be left with this effect.
   —I don’t know what the research shows, but the quote doesn’t justify your conclusion, Fatboy.
   —It says total sleep time is associated with momentary headache intensity.
   —It doesn’t say excessive sleep causes headaches.
   —It doesn’t say “more sleep” or “too much sleep” at all.

   The idea that getting more sleep the following day or napping throughout the day after a night of barely sleeping is another false idea that people tend to have thought highly of.
   —What idea?
   —Do you mean the FALSE REMEDY of catching up on sleep by napping the day away DOES NOT MAKE UP FOR A MISSED NIGHT OF SLEEP?

   Sleep debt is the effect of not getting your usual amount of sleep for the current night. There is this thought that it would make up for the lack of sleep that people have gotten the night before, but in fact, it leads to the opposite of what people would want to believe the effects are.
   —This is getting tiring, Fatboy.
   —You are padding every small detail by setting up situations, asking rhetorical questions, rephrasing positive claims as negative claims, stating everything twice, and settling in the end on “the opposite of the other thing” when neither thing is well defined.

   Meadows goes into detail about this, explaining that it is actually what causes people to get more sleep than they are supposed to get. Who would’ve thought that not getting enough sleep would eventually lead to oversleeping? This idea of trying to make up for a sleep debt eventually gets to the point where now we have to deal with mental problems such as depression and anxiety. Health conditions would also continue to play apart in this by adding towards sleep disorders such as insomnia and sleep apnea. Trying to make up for the loss of sleep would just lead us down a worse path than what we were already on.
   —As I said.

   All of these holes in the argument that more sleep is good for you just doesn’t make any sense at all when it goes back to the argument contradicting itself when evidence shows that it leads to more of these mental problems more than anything.
   —And again.

   Writer Allison Aubrey is a main supporter of how getting 10+ hours of sleep will do you more good than bad.
   —Good. I do appreciate that you’ve found a “Worthy Opponent.”
   —I hope she’ll help focus your argument.

   She explains in her article, “Want To Get Faster, Smarter? Sleep 10 Hours.” Aubrey explains in this article how sleeping for an extended period of time had helped football players have increased performance during their workouts and would even have a faster 40-yard dash. In Aubrey’s article, she states,

   “It’s hard to say how the connection between more sleep and improved physical performance may translate to weekend warriors — or middle-age folks who are just trying to hold onto a nine-minute jogging pace. The take-home message here, Church says, is that this is just one more example of how sleep makes a difference.”
   —For starters, it’s hard to see the connection between better workouts and “Getting Smarter,” so maybe she’s not such a great opponent after all. Or maybe “smarter” was just one of many supposed benefits of long sleep.
   —Your quote indicates that Aubrey isn’t the true source. She’s paraphrasing “Church,” who may be the credible source you should be reading.

   Sleeping does make a difference, but not in the way of how Aubrey thinks it does. This short term run of how sleeping more has improved these football players is nothing more than a short term run.
   —Basis for that claim?

   Aubrey is more than incorrect in this research as she doesn’t realize that it is going to affect the players’ health in more bad ways than good ways. The risk of chronic diseases such as diabetes, heart diseases, and even anxiety are the bad ways in how it could go south for these football players if they are to be kept on this disastrous sleeping schedule.
   —Is your refutation to repeat the vague claims you’ve made so far?
   —We’ve seen nothing so far to indicate your dire health predictions are credible.

   Saying one thing while research says another is one thing to do, but then not having enough evidence at the same time just makes your argument completely fall apart. In Aubrey’s article, we don’t see much evidence or research that could actually explain why this increased amount of sleep should be continued by more people. We go on this extensive, useless, journey of reading about how she just continues to say that increased sleep helps but we don’t get the evidence needed to go off of our own thinking. It doesn’t help when we are just looking at her saying “well this equals this so it has to be right”, when there are possibly many different other factors that could have led to the conclusion of football players playing better. What kind of argument is it if they are just saying this and that without anything to back it up?
   —Ouch. That’s a really good description of your Rebuttal argument here, Fatboy.

   As much as people would like to believe that staying in bed longer would eventually lead to positive effects on your body and mind, There just isn’t enough evidence as to why it would do any good for anybody. It might feel like a good thing when waking up at 1 in the afternoon after sleeping for 12 hours, but when you take into account the negative effects of chronic diseases and the mental issues it could lead to, it just isn’t worth it in the end.
   —This sounds very little like a research paper, Fatboy. I’m going to read Aubrey and see if she links to Church and maybe I can help you find an angle that is actually convincing, but so far it’s missing from these 1000 words.

   So just think about that the next time you want to stay in bed for just “5 more minutes.”

   Provisionally graded. This post is always eligible for a Regrade following significant Revision, but time is running out.

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3. davidbdale says:

   December 3, 2022 at 7:21 PM

   The Aubrey source isn’t particularly useful, and should not have been considered a primary source. You could track down the Church study if it seems useful to you.

   Meanwhile, though, I took a cue from the last paragraph and did a Google Scholar search for “American Academy of Sleep Medicine” “too much sleep” “too little sleep”
   All three search terms together at once. Here’s a link to the 76 results. You’ll need them if you choose to do revisions.

   https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C31&q=%22American+Academy+of+Sleep+Medicine%22+%22too+much+sleep%22+%22too+little+sleep%22&btnG=

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4. fatboy489zt says:

   December 19, 2022 at 1:33 AM

   I have rewritten the rebuttal rewrite

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5. davidbdale says:

   December 19, 2022 at 3:49 PM

   An impressive revision cycle. Regraded.

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