14 Responses to Rebuttal Rewrite-Giantsfan224

1. giantsfan224 says:

   November 19, 2022 at 5:02 PM

   I wanted to write this early so we could discuss improvements during our Zoom on Monday. I wasn’t able to find one “worthy” source to refute, so I had to find multiple articles relating to different aspects.

   I would like feedback on if my refuting claims are good enough, and if they aren’t ways I could improve them.

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2. davidbdale says:

   November 21, 2022 at 4:33 AM

   For the record, I did a quick Google Scholar search for
   “positive influence” “social media” +fitness +”anabolic steroids”
   and found 32 possible sources for that very specific topic:
   https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C31&q=%22positive+influence%22+%22social+media%22+%2Bfitness&btnG=

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3. davidbdale says:

   November 21, 2022 at 5:39 AM

   While many view the actions of fitness influencers as reckless and dishonest, influencers firmly believe that the content they produce encourages and motivates their audience to make healthy changes in their lives. Thanks to social media, influencers also believe that learning about fitness is the easiest it’s ever been due to the infinite amount of ways we can network with others.

   —Nice work, GiantsFan. This is succinct and clean. It maintains your position the SIs are dangerous while acknowledging that their intentions might be beneficent. There are sentence problems, but they might not survive revisions, so they can wait. Meanwhile, you might not want to give SIs a full pass. Some are clearly ruthless. But research might indicate that social media advice, encouragement, and community-building truly benefit the would-be fit.

   Influencers may think that their physiques are inspiring the viewers, but their logic is flawed. Justin Ross, a Denver-based sports psychologist, states, “Seeing others succeed in sports can spur a drive of wanting to achieve for ourselves.” Many believe this when it comes to body physiques as well. However, using social media as a source of motivation implies that the motivation does not actually come from ourselves. Relying on others’ success to realize that a change is needed, isn’t inspiring us, it’s making us envy the influencers accomplishments. Recognizing that our present lifestyle isn’t healthy, then acting on it, is motivation from within that we all should look to obtain.

   —Ordinarily, essayists quote their sources to support their own positions, not the “opposition.” In the case here, readers can’t tell which you intend. If you don’t prepare us to discredit Ross, his remark sounds reasonable and persuasive. Your “However . . .” comes a little late.
   —Your rebuttal doesn’t actually refute the claim that “modeling” a fit physique is effective motivation.
   —Instead, you want us to aspire to a purer motivation than emulation.
   —Are there no “cleanly-achieved” body images that could serve as helpful models?

   Influencers who post their unrealistic bodies see themselves and are recognized by many as role models. Those who express honesty and transparency about steroid use serve our youth immensely, as they guide them away from the liars of the industry. Acknowledging the “good” is great, but we can’t forget that the “bad” severely outweighs the positive in the fitness world. Praising phony influencers, which is commonly done, serves our youth no justice. They see the acclaim that the influencers receive, and try to replicate that success without fully knowing the truth. In doing so, they put all of their energy into a task that isn’t even possible. Deceitful influencers are not role models regardless of their status on social media. Having thousands of followers does not equate to honesty, or even make them an appropriate person to guide our youth to future success in their fitness goals.

   —It appears we agree that admirable role models exist.
   —This is a tricky balancing act.
   —You want to praise the responsible fitness influencers whose physiques are attainable without resorting to illegal substance abuse while condemning those who pretend their results can be achieved without abuse.
   —Your second paragraph condemns the entire notion that emulation can be healthy, but you clearly see its value . . . depending on what is emulated. It’s hard to make bold claims on both sides of the balance until you locate the precise difference between the two sides.

   The same argument that influencers are role models can be rebuked once again. We know that their physiques are not natural, even if they don’t directly mention it. But those influencers know, and they willingly lie to get what they want. Instead of properly educating the youth on their steroid use, which would bring awareness to potential side effects, they choose to sweep their past under the rug. When they don’t even acknowledge their steroid abuse, they allow our impressionable youth to think that steroids have no consequences except for looking “jacked.” Influencers want their viewers to work towards obtaining their body goals, but don’t necessarily care about how the teens reach those goals. Not so much of a role model now, right?

   —Right, but.
   —When you lump all influencers into the category “Influencers,” you blur the distinction you need to maintain.
   —Creating terms for your categories is so often the solution to problems like this one.
   —The first two that come to my mind are “Cleanfit” and “Dirtyfit.”
   —Maybe cleanfit influencers acknowledge their responsibility, emphasize the behaviors that lead to fitness “the hard way,” and re-frame the long and arduous regimen as “the smart way.”
   —Maybe dirtyfit influencers hide the dangerous and illegal shortcuts they’ve taken and focus their followers’ attention on the fast path to “results at any cost.”

   Fitness influencers also claim that they are improving the lifestyles of the individuals they connect with. Some may, but again, many send unwanted feelings into their young viewers minds. Getting teens to go to the gym is a “win” in the influencers eyes, but they don’t care what’s driving that desire to workout. When the feelings of “not being good enough” invade their minds, the only lifestyle teens experience is eating an inordinate amount and working out to extreme extents. Allowing our youth to think only about their next gym session or meal is not a healthy lifestyle, but rather a debilitating addiction.

   —You’re working with some VERY subtle distinctions here, GF. I suspect both types of influencers would encourage thoughts of “I could be better.” To me, there’s virtually no difference between that thought and “I’m not good enough.” If one is motivational and the other is toxic, I admit to not knowing how to distinguish them.

   Influencers don’t think they are spreading the feelings of shame, guilt, and despair to their audiences. Rather, they think that their content provides the viewer with a sense of pride which allows them to “hold themselves accountable.” They essentially want others to feel compelled to work out. Majority of the time, the viewer does feel compelled to work out, but not because the posts make them feel prideful about how their body looks. Our youth interacts with the content and ends up feeling that they have to compete with the influencers to reach those same physiques, so that they can meet the body standards that have slowly normalized each and every year.

   —The more I read, the more I think your best way forward is to clearly distinguish between two types, GF.
   —I say that because you certainly DO BELIEVE some influencers DO KNOW they’re using shame and guilt as motivators. And you want to identify those as the group that ALSO obscure their dangerous methods.
   —Here, you’re still trying to have it both ways: “Influencers don’t think they are spreading . . . shame, guilt, and despair.”

   Tim Dodd, author of an article on Media Blaze, views that fitness influencers are spreading the idea of health one post at a time. He claims that consistent and diverse content, made by influencers with hospitable personalities, makes social media an ideal place to visit for fitness advice. Insisting that social media is the place to go for fitness inspiration isn’t always right. Social media is filled with many users who are unhelpful or even disrespectful to newcomers. Additionally, when we see pictures of highly unattainable bodies, it fills the minds of teens with fear and doubt. Inspiration isn’t drawn from self motivation in these scenarios. Comparing their natural bodies to those riddled with steroids is one of the first stages that leads to body dysphoria, a plague wreaking havoc on our youth.

   —Look at it this way, GF. Social Media IS an ideal place to get good advice. It’s also a minefield that kills the unwary and vulnerable.
   —I can use social media to find advice on writing more effectively OR to buy essays that promise “a quick A paper for $75.”
   —You’re depending on a very tenuous hypothesis that may be outside the scope of your own essay here. The hypothesis: “The availability of images of goals that can’t be achieved honorably CREATES shame.”
   —What you want: Honest photos of bodies that can be achieved through smart nutrition and reasonable effort motivate youth to become their best selves, whether that matches the “ideal” or not.
   —What you decry: Fraudulent photos of bodies that can be achieved only through dangerous abuse are used to attract followers and nothing else, DESPITE the danger that some youth will be motivated by shame to chase the unattainable.

   I hope that’s helpful, GF. Your work here is admirable. If the sources I’ve guided you toward are valuable, they may help you sharpen your focus a bit. Much of what you say here sounds perfectly reasonable but too much like personal opinion. A bit of academic support would be helpful.

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4. giantsfan224 says:

   November 22, 2022 at 5:44 PM

   Thanks for the feedback professor. Revisions have been made. Please let me know about anything else that would improve my work.

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5. davidbdale says:

   November 28, 2022 at 2:12 PM

   Modeling an unnatural physique isn’t effective motivation because the viewers know that those bodies can’t be obtained without the use of harmful substances.

   —You can’t take for granted that readers will agree with this assessment.

   In the rare case that a popular influencer is clean and honest about their past, of course the viewer will stay optimistic about their goals.

   —This assessment is equally unsupported. Do you have a source for this rosy outlook?

   The main thing separating the motivational and toxic influencers is the way they try to build their platform and name. Toxic influencers who try and emulate the positive ones do so by copying their methods, but don’t keep the same intentions in mind. One side delivers encouragement, while the other seeks personal gain only. The problem is that both types of influencers are referred to as role models. Acknowledging the good influencers is great, but we can’t forget that the bad ones severely outweigh the positive in the fitness world.

   —Long before we reach this point of your presentation, we’re demanding examples. Toxic influencers who copy the methods of positive influencers but not their intentions is four things that require illustration.
   —If your audience is the narrow one of fitness enthusiasts already familiar with the popular influencers good and bad, you can shortcut the whole business of making the comparisons by citing a name or two and a nickname for their techniques.
   —For the rest of us, if you want us to read your essay at all (you might not!), you’ll need to provide us a bit of background and context.

   When these dirty influencers, or “role models,” ignore their steroid abuse, they allow our impressionable youth to think that steroids have no consequences except for looking “jacked.”

   —You’ve confused yourself here, GF.
   —By “ignore their steroid abuse,” you must mean they conceal it, right?
   —If they acknowledge or divulge their use, they’re not “ignoring” it.
   —If they divulge their use and downplay the dangers, they’re ignoring the dangers, not their use. This is an important distinction. Only one version leads to your next claim:
   
   Dirty influencers want their viewers to work towards obtaining their body goals, but don’t necessarily care about how those teens reach their goals.

   —That is, they must be up front about their steroid use, not describe it as abuse, and condone its use while ignoring the dangers. Is that what you mean?

   Hemsworth claims that he is natural. Teenagers feel compelled to match his standards [but can’t achieve them without supplements].

   —That makes him a Dishonest Influencer at best. You may need to create that category.

   —Teens working out because dirty influencers make them feel “not good enough” is entirely different than positive influencers sending the message of living a healthy lifestyle, teaching that the way we live can always “be better.” Forcing teens to be stuck in the mindset that they are “not good enough” can lead to debilitating addictions and problems, such as body dysmorphia.
   —You might want to honor your opponents before you make this claim by acknowledging that the distinction is a fragile one. The difference between “you can be better” and “you’re not good enough” is one of subtle emphasis.
   —A similar distinction with relevance here is between “you’ve achieved your full honest potential, of which you can be proud,” and “your achievement is fraudulent and therefore no achievement at all.”
   —Is that language helpful?
   —It shifts the shame/guilt/despair from the shoulders of the kids who can’t look like Thor to the shoulders of those who cheat and risk their lives and health to chase a goal they’re also never going to reach.

   Dirty influencers don’t think they are spreading the feelings of shame, guilt, and despair to their audiences. Rather, they think that their content provides the viewer with a sense of pride which allows them to “hold themselves accountable.”

   —I’m not so sure.
   —Some might. Others might know full well they’re using shame to motivate.
   —Are those who think they’re doing good more honorable or just too clueless to see the harm they’re doing?

   They essentially want others to feel compelled to work out. Majority of the time, the viewer does feel compelled to work out, but not because the posts make them feel prideful about how their body looks. Our youth interacts with the content and ends up feeling that they have to compete with the influencers to reach those same physiques, so that they can meet the body standards that have slowly normalized each and every year.

   —This is an essential point that needs explaining.
   —How did the new “body standards” get “normalized”?
   —Do the kids see living examples of the new standard among their peers?
   —Or is it the cascade of images available in seconds online that convince them they’re not measuring up?
   —The phrase “normalizing the abnormal” comes to mind.

   Social media can be a great place to receive advice, but it can also be a minefield that kills the unwary and vulnerable. Posted on The Australian Fitness Academy, the article “How Social Media Has Influenced The Fitness Industry,” states, “Gone are the days where you need to pay for a magazine subscription, as so much valuable content is now posted online for free.”

   —You may have missed the other value of this quote.
   —It emphasizes that both the wholesome advice and the toxic shame-comparison images are available immediately and for free.
   —The minefield analogy is very nice. Kids seeking solutions will have no ability to distinguish valuable advice from misinformation or mischief.
   —You get to this later, but it might more profitably be mentioned here.

   The author here believes that valuable fitness advice can be accessed easily, quickly, and affordably, as opposed to the past. Those that believe this use the false analogy that just because some things are accessed for free, they assume everything valuable related to online fitness is free.

   —That’s an admirable effort to build a false analogy, GF. 🙂
   —I’d call it more of a False Conclusion.
   —The fact that some VFA is free does not prove all VFA is free or that all FA is V whether free or not.

   You appear reluctant to accuse phony or dirty influencers of profiteering in this essay, GF. It’s a valuable refutation tool to call out the corrupt motives of your opponent when they’re so obvious.

   I notice also that there don’t appear to be any academic resources rushing to the defense of your phony influencers to back up the value of their “fitness approaches.” That leaves you having to refute the clowns themselves. And THAT gives you a chance for a “My Opponent Has Zero Evidence” refutation. Find some positive role models that offer wholesome fitness advice online. Identify the credible organizations that endorse them. Point out that your phony influencers have zero credible support from the wider fitness community.

   Helpful?

   Provisionally graded. This post is always eligible for a Regrade following significant Revision.

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6. giantsfan224 says:

   December 6, 2022 at 7:01 PM

   Thanks for the feedback. Revisions have been made.

   Reply
   • giantsfan224 says:

     December 6, 2022 at 7:02 PM

     A regrade would be appreciated.

     Reply
7. davidbdale says:

   December 9, 2022 at 1:57 PM

   Your first two paragraphs are very strong, GF. I’m impressed with the progress you’ve shown.

   You do introduce a contradiction in P3

   They see the acclaim that the influencers receive, and try to replicate that success without fully knowing the truth.

   that is hard to reconcile with what you said in P2

   Modeling an unnatural physique isn’t effective motivation because the viewers know that those bodies can’t be obtained without the use of harmful substances.

   Hard to see how the same kids could “not know the truth” while “know[ing] that those bodies can’t be obtained without the use of harmful substances.

   Reply
8. davidbdale says:

   December 9, 2022 at 1:58 PM

   Dirty influencers want their viewers to work towards obtaining their body goals, but don’t necessarily care about how those teens reach their goals. Not so much of a role model now, right?

   I think you mean they DON’T want their viewers to have to work. They offer them instead a shortcut.

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9. davidbdale says:

   December 9, 2022 at 2:00 PM

   Additionally, the mindset that is being implemented by both types of influencers is exactly why the dirty influencers don’t improve their viewers’ lifestyles. Teens working out because dirty influencers make them feel “not good enough” is entirely different than positive influencers sending the message of living a healthy lifestyle, teaching that the way we live can always “be better.” Forcing teens to be stuck in the mindset that they are “not good enough” can lead to debilitating addictions and problems, such as body dysmorphia.

   These are not THE SAME MINDSET. Your first sentence confuses or deceives us.

   Reply
10. davidbdale says:

    December 9, 2022 at 2:07 PM

    The more I read, the more I believe you should NEVER give the dirty influencers the benefit of the doubt. It’s too hard to justify.

    Majority of the time, the viewer does feel compelled to work out, but not because the posts make them feel prideful about how their body looks. Our youth interacts with the content and ends up feeling that they have to compete with the influencers to reach those same physiques because these toxic influencers have been normalizing the abnormal for the past decade and a half on platforms that are so accessible.

    Here’s your reality:
    Children seeking solutions will have no ability to distinguish valuable advice from misinformation.

    This is not the opinion of a dirty influencer. It’s the opinion of a clueless “social media expert.”

    “Gone are the days where you need to pay for a magazine subscription, as so much valuable content is now posted online for free.”

    Distinguish carefully among those three categories: Healthy influencers/Dirty influencers/The “Objective” Media.

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11. davidbdale says:

    December 9, 2022 at 2:08 PM

    Regraded. Much improved. Could still be better if you wish.

    Reply
12. davidbdale says:

    December 9, 2022 at 2:14 PM

    I forgot about this one. Start here. Do not credit Dirty Influencers with a conscience:

    While many view the actions of fitness influencers as reckless and dishonest, influencers firmly believe that the content they produce encourages and motivates their audience to make healthy changes in their lives. 

    YOU view the actions of MANY influencers as reckless and dishonest.

    You’ve put your strong claim into the Dependent Clause. Watch what happens when you swap the claims.

    While fitness influencers firmly believe that the content they provide encourages and motivates their followers to behave responsibly, too many dirty influencers are reckless and dishonest.

    Reply
13. giantsfan224 says:

    December 10, 2022 at 3:11 PM

    Thanks for the feedback professor. Revisions have been made.

    Reply